Starting a business itself is hard, not to mention starting a cannabis business. Finding funding, hiring your first few employees, and navigating regulations is difficult. But then if you’re trying to scale your cannabis business, you’ll face an entirely new set of challenges that nobody ever warned you about. Until today. Enter Anna Willey.
In this episode, I’m interviewing Anna Willey, founder of California Artisanal Medicine (CAM), and someone I really admire. Anna shares why you should nurture your business team, how she scaled her business and overcame the associated challenges, and what it’s like to be a woman in the cannabis industry, especially as a grower.
We also chat about the state of policy and cannabis in California. We’ve come a long way already over the years, but there are still issues that plague our industry, such as infighting, lack of leadership and lobbyists, and lack of police support to name just a few. We’ve still got work to do, folks.
If you’re a DIY cannabis hustler who is just getting into the industry, make sure to subscribe to my podcast, High Class, where I help you move past the frustration, hurdles, and red tape of the cannabis industry.
In this episode, you’ll learn…
- [02:05] An introduction to Anna, her exit from her Colorado business, and how she came to be where she is now in the California cannabis space
- [07:54] How cannabis has become a part of our personal identity, and why you should invest in growing and nurturing your team
- [16:05] Anna walks us through how she scaled her business
- [23:22] What it’s like being a woman in the cannabis industry, specifically as a grower, plus her advice for someone just starting out
- [26:52] Anna explains the art of scaling and the challenges you face while doing so
- [34:32] Where Anna sees her brand going and what it’s like to be a female leader
- [41:59] The state of policy and the cannabis industry in California
If you want to learn more about how to scale your cannabis business from Anna Willey, be sure to tune into this episode:
Links mentioned in this episode…
Book: Start With Why by Simon Sinek
About Anna Willey
Anna Willey founded California Artisanal Medicine (CAM, previously Colorado Alternative Medicine in another iteration), in Colorado in 2009. She was born in India and raised in Queens, New York, where her passion for cannabis began. Anna started her journey into legal cultivation in Colorado, which led her to develop a 1400-light facility and premier storefront location in Denver, Colorado. In 2018 when California legalized cannabis for recreational use, Anna relocated CAM to contribute to the already massive and competitive California cannabis market.
Stay Connected!
Visit the California Artisanal Medicine (CAM) Website
High Class Podcast Community on Facebook
Transcript for “How to Cultivate, Grow, and Scale Your Cannabis Business with Anna Willey:”
[00:00:36] Salwa Are you thinking about getting into the cannabis industry but aren’t really sure how? I’m Salwa Ibrahim, your cannabis auntie and I’m here to help you find accelerated success in your cannabis business. And I’m sharing all the details on how to get there. So get comfy as we dive in. Welcome to another episode of the High Class podcast. On this episode, I am just so excited to have Ms. Anna Wiley from CAM join us to teach us all about her experience, The lessons she’s learned and her journey. Anna has been a woman in the space that I have been dying to connect with you guys. Like I’m telling you, I’ve been to Hollow Flowers probably like three or four years in a row just to connect with Anna and every time we’ve missed each other. And so you guys are witnessing us connecting for the first time in person, not on the gram. And I couldn’t be more thrilled. Anna, welcome to the High Class podcast.
[00:01:35] Anna Thank you so much for having me. I actually look at you the exact same way, which is like a mentor. And I remember first coming to your store, I was doing deliveries for Kim for my product and I’m like, Is she here today? And I think it was I think Teresa was working at the time, like you just missed her. And that was, I want to say, about three and a half years ago. So a long time coming. And I have so much respect for you and I’m so excited to be here.
[00:02:04] Salwa Likewise. Likewise. Okay. So for those who don’t know about Anna, can you give us kind of a high level background of yourself? I know there’s so much there, but if you could kind of give the audience just a little bit of who you are and how you got to be where you are.
[00:02:18] Anna Sure. I am a cultivator first and foremost, and I started cultivating at a relatively pretty young age of 45 now. I started when I was 22 in Colorado, and I have a pretty strange story because I’ve worked a lot of different types of corporate jobs, but my heart is always been in cultivation, was a hobby grower, six lighters, eight lighters, 12 lighters, garage and then 2009 when Colorado decided to go legal, I decided to basically take my shoe box money and I tried to raise capital. I mean, I definitely tried, but I took all my savings and credit card debt and just started my business. And at the time it was Colorado Alternative Medicine. And we had we started just off with a 5000 square foot grow and a store right on Broadway, and that grew to two stores seeing 750 people a day on each side, 1150 lights. And I exited out of Colorado in 2016, took a year to rebuild a couple grows in Colorado that wasn’t too successful and then new California in 2018 and here we are we’re up in operational here with almost 2500 lights and two distros and two deliveries and we’re about 300 shops.
[00:03:41] Salwa Amazing. What was that like to exit your first company in Colorado? What was that experience like for you?
[00:03:48] Anna It was not the greatest. I definitely did not want to exit. I had some licensing issues that I’m sure is loud and clear, and I think that what that taught me was that just when you think nothing can go wrong, and you’re top of the world, you’re number one in the state, everything is great. That’s when you can really, really screw up your business. Because in every business there’s these huge pitfalls. And part of being a CEO is to be able to identify those pitfalls before they become fires or emergency. And it was a huge learning lesson for me, especially in a state that was just a whole different level of compliance, much, much different than what we have today in California. But just it was a very simple mistake. We’re missing a signature. I thought we had it. I told the police officer that we had it, got charged with lying to a public servant. Yeah, it was very small. It was very, very, very small error. But it did happen and it was horrible. And because of that, we were forced to sell to a competitor that had already been trying to buy us. So there was stuff in there and people don’t know. There’s a lot of politics in government on licenses and who gets what and things like that. And so though the exit was extremely lucrative and nobody should feel bad for me because obviously money was exchanged, and it allowed me to start my business all by myself in California, literally took that entire amount of money and then restarted in California. But it is really difficult and it was really difficult for my 160 employees at the time as well.
[00:05:26] Salwa Yeah, did they have the opportunity to stay on? I’m sure they did, right?
[00:05:30] Anna Some of them. But I mean, and no one wanted to because it was just a completely different and it was a completely different vibe. I mean, we had built it from scratch. It was so family oriented. Still to this day, I know almost everybody’s names or middle names or kids’ names. I mean, I really try. It’s much more difficult when you’re scaling at the level that we are, as you know, to know every single person’s name and their story. But I really feel like you need to.
[00:05:55] Salwa Connection.
[00:05:56] Anna You have to have that connection. And especially for folks that are doing such important jobs for you from an hourly perspective and are touching your customers and things like that, there has to be something else and they have to feel like they’re part of a bigger, I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but to actually just create that culture and make people feel that everything from trimming to packaging that you’re part of this bigger, important story in cannabis.
[00:06:23] Salwa Yeah, it’s like Simon Sinek’s book, Start With Why. Like, why does this matter?
[00:06:30] Anna Exactly. Why does this matter and why does it matter to you as a company and to your people?
[00:06:34] Salwa So was it like a no brainer to come to California?
[00:06:38] Anna Oh my God. I’ve been trying to. So when we when I had the name, I was like, I’ll just go to C states. So it’ll be Colorado Alternative Medicine, it’ll be Chicago Alternative Medicine. And my main goal obviously, was to come to California. So I think California has it’s the most competitive. The product is the best, some of the best weed here. I think that we’re leap years ahead in genetics. I think there were leap years ahead in data analysis and cultivating with data and retail with data. I think there’s tons of smart people here that are in cannabis and are willing to put it all on the line. And I also think we can talk about this. I also think there’s some bad actors out there and that folks that aren’t really for the plant or to help people or haven’t been through having been through this like quasi not legal fees. Not that I’m saying that everybody has to be from that. But I think that it gives you a different perspective and how much you love cannabis to like actually do it with putting your life on the line or putting your freedom on the line, I guess.
[00:07:47] Salwa All of it. It’s your freedom, your life and your heart. Right?
[00:07:52] Anna Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
[00:07:54] Salwa You know, we were just connecting on the fact that cannabis just becomes part of your personal identity. And for a lot of us.
[00:08:01] Anna Yeah. And it’s only thing I know, right? It’s the only thing I know. I did ten years of working in software, but I grew in homes during that time, so it was this amazing secret that I had that even if people treated me poorly at work or whatever, there was this ability to have this great product and then share it with people. And people thought that weed’s great or that OG is great. And just having that does something for a cultivator. I mean, I think that’s what everybody strives to do, which is grow great weed and then share it with someone. And then even if they don’t now, they don’t obviously tons of customers. But just having that and someone saying, Hey, that was great, that was a great experience. So I think that everybody and I know all my guys and girls on the cultivation, like that’s what we really strive for, which is someone saying, Man, that tasted great like that got me so high.
[00:08:58] Salwa I feel like that’s one thing. Like I didn’t notice when meeting your team over the years is that sense of pride. Like everybody’s happy to be there and they like being associated with the brand. They’re like, I am part of this bigger thing and everybody loves it. And so it’s like really easy to be on your team.
[00:09:15] Anna We try really hard to do tons of succession planning. So like our head of marketing, he started off as a part time driver. He was going to school for marketing and then once he graduated, we had a plan B to plan because I worry about, you know, looking at VPs and all that type of stuff. But I think that my real gift, or at least I’d like to think, is that I’m really good at picking out diamonds in the rough. So I’m good at being able to see somebody at 22, 23 being like, Oh my God, you have so much to offer and how do we get you there in a timely manner? My concept of having people is, well someone taught me this, obviously, which is hire to retire. I’m going to hire you. And I’m gonna treat you so good and you’re going to treat me so good that I’m going to want us to retire together. It doesn’t always work out. That could mean like three years, right? Or whatever it is. But I will say I’m so proud to say that our turnover is relatively pretty low and that the folks that have been with me, the people that moved out from Colorado, still are with me, which says something about making sure that you’re providing opportunities because, hey, I’m the first one, you know, for advice wise, if it’s not working out for you or you don’t feel like it’s a good fit or you’re at a company that you feel that you don’t see growth there, don’t overly waste your time, and you’re like, you’re a ten and you’re a winner and you’ve got a lot to offer. Go, go out there and find something else. I always tell my number ones like, if we’re not growing fast enough or we can’t provide you with that, believe me, I will be the first one to be like, Oh, you doubled your salaries. Good. Good for you. That’s me. And wish them the best andyou know it’s so hard, we. Literally had we had an assembly like distribution manager, we her dream is nursing and she got into an amazing nursing program and I’m like. Go, great, horrible. It’s going to be really horrible for us. But that’s awesome. That’s amazing.
[00:11:12] Salwa So you know, what’s beautiful about what you just said is that making that investment in the front end in your team basically creates bandwidth for you to not have to deal with it later. And so you’re not internally focused on your team and like some gears not working as well together, and you’re outwardly focused on how you can gain market share, how you can expand your business, how you could grow your business. So it’s so important and so critical for people who are just starting out to really make sure that they nurture their team, that they have the right folks in place and that they really do have a plan and a good line of communication. Because if you are growing so fast and then your team’s not on the same page and whatever else, you’re not going to be able to scale or grow your business the way that you want to because you’re going have so many internal issues.
[00:12:01] Anna Yeah, yes, it’s so true. And you can’t process, process, process. So if you don’t have folks on your team that really want to build process and put people into position and also just kind of create a structure of communication, that’s where you’re going to fail. I mean, 90% of the things when you distribute your own product has to do with communication. So when you get a piece of information, whether it’s good or bad, right, something went wrong with the delivery or whatever. It’s really important to make sure that you’re having those lines of communication so that one, it doesn’t happen again. How can you fix it? And then making sure that you’re whether it’s, you know, obviously I was a sales reps to many of our car customers, including before but now we have like a full blown sales team and and we have a president sales that they’re really coming you know if there is an issue to make sure that you’re communicating with your customer or also we have set up a really great way of saying all the departments we have internal clients, right? And our internal clients are sales, right? Like who internal clients are sales, packaging and trimming, because if those things don’t go really well, then all of the other departments are going to cultivation, has issues and all the other departments are going to feel the effects of the issues that stem from cultivating.
[00:13:19] Salwa So absolutely, absolutely. Okay. So going backwards, you exit it. You came to California, you decided you wanted to be in California. Did you decide to go small at first or were you just like, I know what I’m doing? I’m so thankful for the second chance. I’m going all in.
[00:13:36] Anna So yeah, I went all in. So I bought a building. I bought it. So the first building I tried to buy was in Oakland. We would have been neighbors, but I could not find a normal building in Oakland with a normal landlord. The rents were I mean, I was pretty well-versed in construction. And so I would go into buildings and be like, Oh my God, this needs a new roof or This is never going to we’re going to have to do so many TGIs that we’re going to have to build nine an entire new building just to hold HVAC on the roof, right? So those types of things. And at the time I was doing licensing for Connected, which was still connected kind of thing going on and I noticed that Sacramento was so friendly, they were so business friendly, like cannabis friendly, and the warehouses were 1/10 of the cost, I could actually purchase the warehouse. So Sacramento, it was my husband’s like, we’re leaving beautiful Denver for Sacramento? I’m like, yes, we are. We’re moving there, but we’re moving to Sacramento. So we packed up and then we bought the building and I have my class of general contractor, but I actually do pull the permits and work with you know, we hired Mark three, which is a construction company because obviously I have my class C in Colorado, but I can actually do the inspections and get the plans through the building and those types of activities. So when I left Colorado, I didn’t want to start small because all I saw, because I’ve been around Connected and I was like they were growing at the scale like I’d never seen before. So I feel that it wasn’t, I mean, 25,000 square feet. I wouldn’t say at the time that was big. So it was one building. It was a 500 light facility. And I went ahead and got a delivery license, a distro license and cultivation license.
[00:15:33] Salwa So what year was this?
[00:15:36] Anna That year was 2018. December and I wish I had gone a little bit bigger in the beginning because then I wouldn’t have had to scale to a secondary building and I would have gotten a little bit more runway when we were running out of product. And I owe to fulfill a lot more orders in 21 and 22 at the height. Or ordering $100,000 orders and I could only deliver like $35,000.
[00:16:04] Salwa Wow. Oh, my gosh. I love that. What were the biggest challenges? Walk me through how you scaled.
[00:16:15] Anna So I think that a couple of things to notice is that you really need to make sure that you have a good capital base to scale. Okay. So it is really hard to scale from your current operations. So whether that you tap into raising capital or friends and family or what I’m able to do is kind of you buy the building and then you take an equity out. Okay. Then with that equity out money you can build and then you can have a balloon payment at the end of it. But if you do everything right and plan for it, you’re able to pay that back and you’ll have actually some operating cash as well. And then you also have a secured note against your building. So that’s you’re the owner of the building and the owner of the business and you’re owner operator. That’s how I’ve done all of them.
[00:16:58] Salwa Anna, that’s exactly how I did it, too. Yeah, it’s really funny. Like I’m saying earlier, we actually do have a lot in common. This is one thing that I haven’t heard a lot of people do. For me, when I first started, I got my first dispensary, Bloom Oakland, and I had a lease with an option to buy, and I kept the lease option with a different entity. And then I kept my dispensary licenses with another entity. And then once we were rolling, I exercised my option. And then once I had the ownership of the building, I took a hard money loan off against the building, and that’s how I was able to scale.
[00:17:31] Anna Yeah, it’s a really smart way to do it yourself. I guess it’s kind of a do it yourself plan.
[00:17:39] Salwa Yeah. And it’s interesting, too, because raising capital has its own advantages and disadvantages. Like as we got bigger and bigger and bigger, we stopped doing that method so much and then we ended up getting on Capital Partners, which ultimately led to a lot of things that business decisions that I was forced into that I didn’t necessarily want to make. But I think that especially women in business like that model is a model that I’ve been starting to talk about more and more because I think it’s more achievable, especially in this climate when money is so expensive. I think it’s a good option for women.
[00:18:16] Anna Also, money is so expensive right now. I think that people don’t realize that, you know, whatever people took hard money loans out of ten or 12 or now at 18 to 22, it’s almost a vulture approach because these companies know that there’s assets on the line that they can take and are almost targeting businesses. So just be really careful when you’re going into that realm of of doing hard money loans and make a plan, have a plan and don’t bite off more than you can chew.
[00:18:45] Salwa Yeah. Do you breed as well?
[00:18:48] Anna I don’t do any breeding. I leave it up to the breeding experts mainly because you have to have a lot more if you’re just trying to get to market and get new strains to market, you just have to trust other breeders because we pop seeds and we try different strains. But the issue with breeding is that it takes over a year and a half. So we’ll have male plants. There is tons of risk there. I have a lot of mouths to feed, not just growing new strains every time is tons of risk. So yeah.
[00:19:18] Salwa Absolutely. How do you choose your stream selection? Like what do you look for? What are you choosing? And then are you just finding one strain that you’re just like killer growing and then rocking that until the wheels fall off? What’s your thought process when you go into this?
[00:19:32] Anna Okay, so basically we’re we are looking at trends. Okay. So I’m trying to predict the next because whatever new strains you pick and you make moms out of those, it takes like four months, right? So you could be trying to achieve the candy gas craze or just the candy craze or the apples or the honey banana or those types of terps, or you’re trying to do something with a terpene profile. You’re trying to predict what’s going to be the new wave or the new hype and kind of go towards that. I’ll give you an example. When things don’t work, people have talked about, OGs coming back, I would like to just grow OG kush for the rest of my life. Honestly, I did. I like to grow nothing else other than OG kush. I can’t. I keep trying to bring it back or sour diesels and it’s all it’s not true. It’s not that they still want purple candy gas. So it’s a lot of risk. It’s a lot of risk to change strains. We do it constantly, though. We’re like we’re constantly getting like new things from JBZ. We’re constantly getting new things from compound. We’re constantly getting symbiotic. I mean, we work with all these guys. I know them personally and I celebrate them. I make sure I tell everyone when it’s great that we bought clones from their nursery, they were healthy, right? Trying to help the other business. Not that they need it, but I’m just saying it’s good.
[00:20:48] Salwa Yeah.
[00:20:49] Anna We bought a thousand clothes. It’s healthy. They’re great. Not having to hide behind the covers that you do everything yourself. I think we all really are afraid to say that I don’t cultivate. That’s okay. It’s okay. You know. You’re not a cultivator in a business, right? Or you’re in retail or you just do copackaging. It’s in any other business, you don’t have to be all things to all people. So like, we don’t do retail, right? But we know that that’s our lifeline to our business. I mean, if people just understood that the retailer is your lifeline to customers, I think people and have that attitude, that that gratitude of there’s 400 brands out there. They could take the other 399. They’re choosing to put you on the shelf and make sure that you have, you know, good sell through. I think that stuff’s really important.
[00:21:42] Salwa That is so awesome. I love that you got a second chance and you crushed your second chance.
[00:21:50] Anna I did crush my second chance. Yeah.
[00:21:53] Salwa You crushed your second chance. Yeah. And it’s funny too because this is how I came across your product was we were in a meeting with Berner, actually, and we were sitting there and we were talking about how we wanted to expand our menu. And it was really important to me and to other people that like we have female growers. And he was like, I got it. He was like, Ah, Anna from Cam. She grows straight fire, no question about it. We’ll hook you guys up with the sales rep, blah, blah, blah. And he was touting you guys like so hard you like so in your product and so.
[00:22:27] Anna I love him for taking a chance. Like, I mean, he’s put so many people on the map it’s not even funny, but. And has never asked from me. Nothing like literally like, here you go. Here’s an opportunity. Make the best of it.
[00:22:40] Salwa But totally and he doesn’t get enough love for that. I hope that he gets more celebrated for that for sure. But yeah, it was great because then I was like, okay, I want to see. I can’t wait to see. And so when the product came in, I was like, I don’t know what I was expecting, but I did not know that I was going to see such fire in this cute little glass jar with this wood top and like this navy blue classic label. And I just knew from that moment I was like, I have to find her. I love it. I love it. One of the questions I want to ask you, it’s a question I get asked often, and it’s funny because I feel like I answer it in two different ways, so I’m curious to hear how you answer it is. What’s it like being a woman in the cannabis industry, but specifically being a grower?
[00:23:28] Anna So I will say that my experience has been different from a lot of folks, so I’m not here to take away other people’s experience. So I want to preface it by that. I have been treated with nothing other than respect. Okay, I want to start over again. So my experience in cannabis as a woman has been a little different from everybody else’s experience. I’ve been treated with nothing but respect. People have been so open and sharing and welcoming towards me. Have I had some like, well, you know, that’s a girl and things like that. And folks coming in and kind of looking over me or looking towards my husband said to be like, No, that’s her, you know, talk to her or something to that extent. But in general, there’s so many misfits, the people that have been thrown away like skateboarding, just people that want to get out of the house better and people that want to break the rules and do shit illegally. So there’s that whole segment of the population. So just like skate, the skating community is extremely welcoming to the Misfits. I think that cannabis is really welcoming to people that are on the fringe.
[00:24:41] Salwa Yeah, yeah, that’s really funny. That’s how I answer to. I’m like, all I was like, I can see how it’s really difficult being a woman in the industry. I know I go into rooms that where people don’t necessarily know who I am or my history or whatever, and like everyone kind of gets quiet. But then it’s like I also feel like I have been treated well just because of my performance or the things that I’ve done. Okay. So if you were to give advice for somebody who’s just starting out, they have a passion for cannabis. They’re super young. They’re looking at this like crazy California market and they really are just trying to figure out how to get into it. What would your advice be?
[00:25:19] Anna Okay, so first, identify what part of cannabis you want to be in and the way you’re going to do that is work at it. Work. Try to identify what you like to do and your strengths and your skill set, and then try to find a job within it. Give it like at least a year, a year and a half, two years. Try to find an idea where you think that the cannabis industry is missing or whatever it’s missing or what part you want to work in and then go from there. If you are dreaming really big and you want to hit it, knock it out of the park, you’re going to have to raise some capital. Cannabis is super expensive. It is not a cheap it wasn’t what it used to be where you have like eight lighter, ten lighter, 150 K and you can start a business. It takes a lot more today to actually start that and that’s not to deter anybody. But I think that it is important to understand that you’re going to need some type of like base capital. You can also start off if you’re really into the cultivation, is to learn about cultivation, which I think I feel takes 3 to 5 years to really learn how to cultivate cannabis. And working somewhere between a two and 500 light facility and kind of work your way up into that and work your way into a head grower position. I’m a big proponent of having education of some kind if you just got to school. So finishing school I think is still really important from a business aspect. I definitely I have lots of schooling. I wouldn’t say all of it was beneficial, but starting something and finishing something actually allows you to do a lot in life.
[00:26:44] Salwa Yeah. Following through. Right?
[00:26:45] Anna Following through. Exactly. Yup.
[00:26:49] Salwa Beautiful. Okay. So when you were talking about scaling and your experience in scaling, what are some of the. It’s funny because when I think about scaling, you would think that it would be easy, right? Because you’re like, okay, I’ve got this and I just need to multiply it. It’s kind of like baking. I just bake a bigger cake, right? And it seems to be one of the more difficult things I’ve ever done.
[00:27:17] Anna It is a completely. Yeah, it’s a completely different set of problems.
[00:27:21] Salwa Completely different set of problems. And so explain the art of scaling if you can.
[00:27:27] Anna So I think that you need to prep your team and having each person in their role be ready to plan for what it’s going to look like in terms of staffing, timing, process, all the things that you think and then identifying, okay, for example, we had no product and we still have not very much product because we’re packaging everything and the new warehouse is going and it’s going well. But we’re we weren’t anticipating we knew there was going to be a lot of bulk and we have tons of bulk buyers. But the issue is that we hadn’t planned to have multiple other rolls of people. All they do all day is get ready for this bulk buyer wanting to come in and buy the product. At that time we thought we would plan for it, but there’s so much I mean, it’s 2000 lights, right? So you have a room being harvested every two and a half days. So just those processes just really, really thinking it through, like what is it going to look like? That’s one. Two, whatever timeline you predicted, just double it. Just double the timeline. Literally just really shrewd in my construction timeline projects. With COVID just out the window completely. People that are great at a 500 light facility might be the worst person to ever pick to scale with. That’s another one.
[00:28:53] Salwa Yeah, I definitely know that hiring the homies was one of the biggest regrets we had pretty early on. My husband and partner is a cultivator and he comes from has a cultivation background. And when we started going from our smaller grows to these grows that were costing us a crazy amount of money in rent alone, bringing them on to give them the opportunity, it was something that we always look forward to, but realizing that just even managing that much more staff was a skill set that they weren’t prepared for or ordering that much more equipment or nutrients or whatever else was such a full time task that took them away from the things that they actually like to do. And it’s hard too, because it’s like learning on the job is not something that you want to do in cultivation. It’s too expensive, everything compounds. It’s a nightmare if you make a wrong decision. So it really is that art of planning, as you mentioned, and really foreseeing everybody’s strengths and weaknesses.
[00:29:54] Anna I’m really lucky because I took on a capital partner after two years and I really got lucky. Not too many people handing out money to small brown people, man or woman. And he just believed in my skill set, which I feel so lucky. But even now, hearing Anna, you might not be that great at this, right? Like I will tell you from a cultivation perspective, I’m great. I’ve like hit my limit like five 700 lights. But I wasn’t really ready to take on the scale. And we had 1 million people. We had to it just I couldn’t do all of those jobs and all of those things.
[00:30:33] Salwa How when you recruit talent, what are some of the questions that you ask to make sure that they actually know what they’re doing?
[00:30:38] Anna Like when I hire sales, I mean, it’s very long interview processes. We actually do tons of trial too. But what I’m looking for in terms of we try to do a lot of succession planning internally and have really the best of our team making sure that they want to be managers. What I will tell you is the best and the brightest of your team might be terrible at managing human beings because they are the superstars or the rock stars. They don’t want to spend all day babysitting maybe minus B plus players, they really don’t. So you need to make sure that you’re hiring A team players for themselves and go from there.
[00:31:13] Salwa Interesting. And then also probably like bringing them along in the hiring process. Do you do that?
[00:31:18] Anna Absolutely. So we do p 360ws. I do the first and last interview for every position, including packaging, which is takes up a whole lot of time. But I think it’s really I mean that’s the number one job is who are you hiring and making sure that their roles are defined on what they’re supposed to do before they start. Like if you don’t have a place where people are coming into and they feel really strong about, you know, where do they get their information to do their job and who do they ask? You know, kind of like a buddy system. And in a training program, in an onboarding program, those things are super important to make sure that those people stay if they don’t feel a connection or they’re not loving their manager or their manager’s not, it’s just it’s pointless.
[00:32:00] Salwa Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It’s you’re taking the term you’re only as good as your weakest link to a whole other thing.
[00:32:08] Anna Yeah, especially with cultivation, too. I mean, it’s just really, really important that you have people that care about the plants and really give a shit about the end product.
[00:32:16] Salwa Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I love it. So you are completely rocking and rolling in California, you’re dominating and you’re like, gosh, I wonder, do you know how important you are to the women in our industry? Because I think that you set such a good example for what you can be and what you can achieve. And you have so much respect in your craft, so much respect from people outside of your business that see you and see what you’re doing that I just really want you to know that you really are a very important figure in our industry and I’m like super grateful for you. I’m super grateful to watch you. It is so much fun watching you dominate and it’s so much fun watching you be celebrated by the most heady dudes in our industry, right? Like, I love it. It’s so awesome.
[00:33:10] Anna I got to tell you, though, it’s all about the team. And for somebody like me to be successful, I have to say that I’m definitely I’m always trying to be I’m literally spending a lot of time, especially these days, to be the dumbest person in the room. Yeah, I want to be around folks that I’m learning from and, you know, trying desperately to find business mentors. It’s really hard to help people navigate. But I think it’s super important for women to go out there and find some business mentors. I’m not there yet in terms of being able to give my time like that. But I know that, like eventually I will be able to like and just having this give back. You are you are this right here, like the folks that you’re talking to on a daily basis is like giving back. So you are like this right here. You’re giving back to the community by showcasing people and brands. And I think that also being a woman in cannabis make an example that women don’t just have to be in a certain sector so they can kind of play all the positions in all the fields if they want to. I think it’s what I try to represent, which is you can be in the boardroom and you can be in there and clean drams and whatever it is that you need to be doing or seed the floors or clean up your mom plants, which I’d love to spend time doing more than anything else. But that’s, you know, that time has passed and now I’m doing different things. So.
[00:34:32] Salwa Yeah. Okay. So now that you are in this current position, what do you see for yourself and your brand? Like, what is your like ultimate goal for your brand?
[00:34:43] Anna So for Cam, we just signed an eight day licensing deal. I’m coming back to Colorado in just about 45 days. We partnered with so I picked. At the word this carefully. I picked somebody that could probably use some good genetics and use some help in cultivation. So, yeah, they’re amazing company they have 50 stores in Colorado. They have a great team. I actually am working with David Chiovetti, who used to work at Cookies and now is over at Pharmacann. And remember that the product was great. It is just the best opportunity for me and my team to come back into Colorado. So it’s kind of like I’m busy.
[00:35:34] Salwa Yes, yes, yes, yes. It’s just like just luck and still winning.
[00:35:44] Anna And but I will tell you, there’s another whole layer to that, because you’re not cultivating the product someone else’s. And you need to be able to work with their cultivation teams and make sure that the product is up to the standards. I have an amazing partner where they just kind of like if it’s not perfect or whatever, they don’t want to release it. This is so unheard of. Usually people are like, Hey, look, you signed on. We’re going to release this product whether you like it or not because we’re here to make money and we just like I do, have mouths to feed. So they have just been wonderful in terms of quality control and working with me. But I think that you build into that too, right? I think that if you go in and that’s like the beauty of being a woman, I’m pretty soft spoken and caring and I care about people. I think that’s like kind of I try for my attitude and my initial interaction with human beings to be like, not like all, you know, I have all this stuff, right? But let’s hear what you have to say. And I’m sure I could learn a lot of stuff. And I’m constantly learning. I’m constantly in a state of learning and constantly in a state of being a beginner because I make mistakes all the time and boy, does my team know that. Sorry, Sarah. But you know, my team knows that I make a lot of mistakes, but I’m always quick to acknowledge my mistakes and I think that’s a really good strength as a leader. Don’t find it too often in men. They don’t want to admit that they’ve done something wrong. But I think it’s really important for your team that when you screw up, that you’re quick to say, Hey, that was completely my fault. I’m sorry about that. Or or I changed my mind midway or any of that type of stuff.
[00:37:16] Salwa Yeah. Yeah. And that’s okay. And that’s a strength, right?
[00:37:20] Anna And is a strength being able to admit that you’re having fun.
[00:37:23] Salwa There’s nothing worse than having a boss make a wrong decision and commit to it because they’re just ego. Because of ego. Right. Because that is so expansive. Like the fastest you can identify a mistake was made and pivot. You can bounce back. Yeah. And you know what it does? Two, it sends a signal to everybody else in your team or on your team that they can make a mistake, too. And it’s okay. And we’ll bounce back.
[00:37:50] Anna It’s okay. We’re going to get through it. And some mistakes are bigger than others, but mistakes are made by trying new stuff. You’re going to break by. So scale, back to scale. Number one issue thing that happens is stuff breaks. So you need to get into this very comfortable mode of being uncomfortable all the time. So it really is like if you want to scale, you better get ready to be uncomfortable all the time. Like kind of, I wouldn’t say an anxious feeling, but kind of you have to embrace the unknown and the anticipation and just the, you know, dumpster fires that are going to occur. And you can’t predict any of it because while you’re doing it, it sounds like such a great idea, like, oh, well, just start this or we’ll start that and we’ll do this and we’ll scale to that, and then all of a sudden we’ll have thousands of pounds and the brand will be great. And we’re in 300 stores now and we’ll be an 800 next year. That all sounds great until you deal with logistics and you’re dealing we’re not dealing with five drivers. You’re dealing with 20, you’re not dealing with somebody gets stuck in the desert or whatever or something. I can just you can come to my house. You can’t you just can’t do that type of stuff, like that type of small business mom and pop stuff, totally different. You have to have a partner or someone or a group of people that are willing to, even if they know that they’ve made the same mistakes in their own business, to make the mistakes with you as if it’s time for them ever. So I’m not like that where it’s like I’m like gung ho to do something. I hear the hesitation being like, I tried that type of, you know, you know, and that might not be the best. Yeah. Yes.
[00:39:34] Salwa I love that. Yeah, I love that.
[00:39:39] Anna It’s okay to make mistakes and it’s okay to be forgiving to yourself and then, more importantly, be kind to your team when things go wrong. A lot of them have been working many, many, many hours to get something done, and sometimes it’s just not going to work and people make a mistake or it’s not correct on metric or whatever it is. So, you know.
[00:40:00] Salwa Yeah, okay. So because you’re so hands on in your business and you’ve got so many things going on, I’m curious like, how do you divide out your day in your week? Are you like scheduling certain things on certain days or is it like every day is broken out for certain tasks?
[00:40:15] Anna Every day is broken out for certain tasks. Every day I have a part of my time that I’m looking at the health of my business, I’m looking at financials, I’m looking at we do a lot of KPIs, which is key performance indicators of looking at, you know, parties and absences and and holes like holes within our business. We need to hire people. And then also looking at data yields, quality, those types of things. So those things are done on a daily basis. I try to spend 20% of my week on the out of state activities, whether that’s talking to marketing and sales folks, I spend another 15% of my time doing AP and just literally AR and AP and working with those teams to make sure wherever I can help, calling people like, Hey guys, you got to pay us. Like your product, like AP and AR is like the health of your business. So those numbers should be similar. You should be bringing as much money as you are kind of have revolving credit on, if not a little bit less in this business. I would say to keep it to like 25 to 50%. We were COD for a long period of time. Obviously with our tried and true customers, we’ve given some terms, some have been good, some have not been.
[00:41:28] Salwa And thank you, by the way.
[00:41:30] Anna And so it’s I think that it’s just working with folks that where it works and then where it doesn’t. So, yeah. Like, people are really going through it right now.
[00:41:41] Salwa People are really going through it. It’s really hard that access tax move to retail was really difficult. You know, there’s like we had to open up a whole other bank account just so we can remove it. So it’s not even in our flow, you know, And it’s it’s, it’s unbelievably challenging. What’s. I’m curious if we can switch topics for a second. We’re talking about the state of policy in California and the state of our industry in California. Yeah, I’m very bothered because I feel like a lot of really important forums on Instagram that cover our industry have this way of sort of fueling a little bit of in-fighting. Right. It’s like the retailers aren’t paying the distributors who aren’t paying the brands and all this stuff. And it’s really frustrating to me because I could just see Big Pharma being like, ha, these guys are going to be so easy to pick off because there’s so much infighting and there’s no.
[00:42:36] Anna We don’t have lobbyists. We don’t we don’t really have all that stuff.
[00:42:41] Salwa We have no leadership.
[00:42:41] Anna And we have no leadership, and we don’t have groups that are coming out and saying, I’m going to fight for this industry. Like, of course, there’s healthy competition in oil, right? But let me tell you, they all band together when it comes to tax reform. Okay. There’s a ton of, you know, healthy competition with food. But in terms of rules and regulations and what you’re allowed to, you know, for an IPM. Like, why am I not allowed to use mine? Is that it is owner or MRI. I mean, like, do I have to live with ribs forever? And it’s super difficult to, you know, get rid of or all those types of things. We can use all natural products that are approved on food grade products, but I can’t spray it on cannabis. So there’s lots of things like that were policy, but especially on the tax, they have created this you know, the stores aren’t paying narrative when it’s actually been hey sales have decreased by 25%. Black market is alive and whatever that whatever. There’s so many other factors.
[00:43:42] Salwa Yeah, or just the fact that like we get no support from the police departments across the state. It’s not just one city across the state. And so therefore, we have to then beef up our security, which is essentially eating up our margins, which is that and then you have to deal with thefts and robberies and insurance companies and all these things. And your insurance keeps ticking up. It is unbelievable how what a bummer the state of California cannabis is right now. And the fact that we can’t get it together.
[00:44:10] Anna It’s going to be, but it’s going to be cyclical. So just like there’s a low time now, there will be changes made and there will be winners from this. I always see fortunes are made in the downturn and collected in the upturn. So this is the time to like plan and be strategic and and make some changes and whatever that is, whatever that looks like for people trying to grow, whatever that is. And then there will be an upside and getting ready for that upside because it’s completely cyclical. It’s all.
[00:44:35] Salwa Do you think that the upside is going to just come from a market corrections or do you think it’ll come from policy change?
[00:44:43] Anna It’ll come from market corrections.
[00:44:45] Salwa Okay. So do you think that in order to have like do you think that we’re going to get any type of policy change?
[00:44:54] Anna No.
[00:44:56] Salwa That’s a bummer. I believe you like. I’m hoping like, I just always hoped that there was going to be, like, some sort.
[00:45:00] Anna I think that a huge deficit of money was lost when cops can’t just go in and take everything from cultivation places and cash and all that, that’s still going on. But I feel like that there is like from from from cannabis arrests. Okay. That gap has to be filled. This is just another huge moneymaker. And I think that a lot of the policy is there not to help current cannabis operators.
[00:45:33] Salwa No, but also, like a lot of policy was made by people who just don’t they don’t understand business and our industry.
[00:45:40] Anna Yeah, I mean look at I mean there’s cities that are charging like $2 million and impact fees after you get your license, you just don’t know about it. So you get a license and you get all this stuff you’re getting ready to build and then you get this astronomical impact fee that no one talked about anywhere. And you’re like, Oh, I can’t do business here. I’m not going to I’m not going to give you a million and a half bucks to start this small distro here because your taxes were cheaper. That just abated the entire point of starting a business here. Yeah, and I get it. I know everybody wants a new swimming pool, but I’m not. I’m not going to be the one to give it to my small business tax is 62%. Sorry. Wrong drug dealer. Hang on.
[00:46:25] Salwa Okay, so if you had, like, a magic wand for one policy change or one thing one correction that you would make in California, specifically, what would it be?
[00:46:36] Anna I would just go to a flat tax of like 11%.
[00:46:41] Salwa Yeah. And it can’t be compounded.
[00:46:44] Anna It’s not going to if you don’t if have three types of businesses, it can’t be 33%. It’s just somewhere between 11 and 15. And that’s it. That’s it. And it’s. And. And that’s it. It’s just one time. So and even divide that up, 7.8% we’re new. We’re new! So if your tech didn’t have taxes for 20 years as on porn. So we’re come on, we’re fine. Okay. So we’re like where’s just a couple of years where we can kind of, you know, get our legs. Your legs. We’re building out electrical grids for everybody. Like my God, these buildings I’ve put in so much money into so many of these.
[00:47:31] Salwa Yeah, so much. Unbelievable.
[00:47:33] Anna It’s a tax would go down that would be just massive.
[00:47:37] Salwa That would be massive. That in and of itself would have a thriving in it.
[00:47:40] Anna Yeah. That and then do something with the money where everybody can see the benefits.
[00:47:46] Salwa Yeah. I remember one time I was or had a six acre green house down in Los Alamos and we had an inspection and I had two DCC inspectors come. All both with brand new Ford pickup trucks.
[00:48:05] Anna Brand new.
[00:48:05] Salwa They didn’t they? I was like, Did you want to carpool? No. They’d rather like driving their brand new trucks around. And so it’s just like blows my mind. Like we as Californian cannabis bought these cars for these people to just drive around. It’s unbelievable.
[00:48:23] Anna Pretty much. I mean, the coffers are full. I just I feel it’s just it’s heartbreaking because companies, you know, are having I mean, we’re. We’re interviewing folks from Herbal and finding really good team spirit. And I think it’s just so like I feel so bad for what’s going on and shame on everybody for saying, Oh, well, you know, they deserved it or whatever. That’s not it’s now for someone that has had a business go away, no one deserves. Okay. No one, you know.
[00:48:55] Salwa But also, I think that there is this like sort of bitterness in our in our space where, like, there’s there isn’t that realization of like, you know, there’s the group of people were like, oh, Cookies should fail or whatever. It’s like, no, you don’t understand. It’s like we all need to win. It doesn’t matter the size. If Cookies wins, we all win. If cookies win can win, we all can win.
[00:49:17] Anna We all win.
[00:49:19] Salwa If Compound wins, we all can win when we really need to be rooting for each other. I don’t understand what’s happening.
[00:49:25] Anna I feel the same. I feel the exact same way. And I was telling you before, like, I mean, Berner put me on the map and put me in the store for the first time. And I’m forever grateful and thankful because you’re just there’s not people that are giving opportunities. And so anytime you can give opportunities to to other brands and other folks take that advantage and know that you’re doing something great.
[00:49:46] Salwa So absolutely, it’ll come back to you.
[00:49:48] Anna Don’t get enough credit for that.
[00:49:50] Salwa Yeah. Okay. Is there anything that because I love seeing you around, I love seeing you on podcasts or in the news or magazines, like I want to see more of you everywhere. But in all of these interviews, like, is there something that you wish somebody asked you that you haven’t been asked before?
[00:50:10] Anna That’s a good one.
[00:50:11] Salwa Or something that you’ve ever wanted to just talk about?
[00:50:13] Anna I think the something that I’ve wanted to talk about, which is that it’s that not all the things that you do are going to be successful. So as you’re scaling, I think it’s important for the consumer and your internal team to say it’s not all going to go just as planned and kind of giving like more of a forgiveness for that, I think more importantly and and letting I think that founders and CEOs don’t allow themselves to it’s all internal and they kind of bottle it up. And it’s really I think mental health, health and wellness is super important for leaders and for people that are doing things, especially in the cannabis space, because it can become really lonely.
[00:51:01] Salwa And I love that you said that too, because this one thing I talked about on my show, I did my Grasslands episode where I pretty much like poured my heart out. And it’s interesting because as cannabis entrepreneurs, I think it’s slightly more difficult than a normal entrepreneurship just because you have to be an activist, a lobbyist, a educator and a leader, an entrepreneur, and you’re expected to do so much and any and it ends up sacrificing something. You either sacrifice your mental health, your physical health. I started talking about like while I was going through Grasslands, I had a miscarriage and I believe it was completely from the stress. And when I opened up and talked about it, I realized there’s so many other women in our industry who’s experienced the same thing, and it just broke my heart. But none of us really felt comfortable bringing it up or talking about it because it’s so personal. And it’s just a thing that we’re all going through, but we don’t. We’re all kind of suffering in silence and like just.
[00:52:03] Anna And then also make sure that you build like a really good support system just to just make sure you have a good like, you know, I’m so I’m amazing husband best husband ever that like, loves me. And I think you know we lived in a yurt and it would be just fine and and you know and he would be just fine with that and you’re running shoes and that you’d go. But I think it’s just to to really celebrate and make sure that you’re taking the time because you’re not going to get that time. I don’t have kids with dads, but I know I know a ton of women in cannabis that just all just go, go, go, go. And I’m like, you know, take a look. Like you’re not going to get that time back. You know, you’re not at that time back for your family. So your business is important and all that type of stuff. But it’s especially hard for women because we have to be all things to all people. And people really expect that.
[00:52:51] Salwa Oh, yeah, that’s I love it. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for spending this with me. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:53:03] Anna We have to hang out sooner than later. .
[00:53:04] Salwa We have to hang out. And I’d love to have you back on the show once you kind of are up and rolling and rockin in your expansion, please come back and share with us.
[00:53:13] Anna I will for sure. Right.
[00:53:18] Salwa Until next time, classmates, keep on pursuing the high life.
